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	<title>Comments for Mormon Heretic</title>
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	<link>http://mormonheretic.org</link>
	<description>Stuff they don&#039;t talk about in Sunday School</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:04:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on What&#039;s the difference between Arabs &amp; Persians? by Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2008/09/25/whats-the-difference-between-arabs-persians/comment-page-1/#comment-12929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mormon Heretic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=99#comment-12929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a cool website to learn more:  http://www.persiansarenotarabs.com/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a cool website to learn more:  <a href="http://www.persiansarenotarabs.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.persiansarenotarabs.com/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Nahom-Archeaological Evidence of Book of Mormon by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2009/01/28/nahom-archeaological-evidence-of-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-12928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 23:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=185#comment-12928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know I am late adding to this board, but I feel that I need to defend John H. here. Before I begin my critique of the NHM &quot;evidence,&quot; note that I am an active member of the LDS church, though I tend to be less orthodox:

First, the root NHM is relatively common whether in Semitic countries or America itself. In fact, one of the Spalding witnesses (though I do not subscribe to that theory) was named Nahum. As far as we can tell, and as John Hamer has pointed out, the names in the BOM were derived from known sources like the Bible.
Second, the altars were written in South Arabian script where the root NHM refers to stone cutting, not comfort.The Hebrew word for comfort is &quot;nacham&quot; with a hard &quot;h&quot; unlike &quot;nahom.&quot; In fact, &quot;nahom&quot; is not a Hebrew word and is not known to be a real place. The fact that &quot;nahom&quot; is spelled like it is in the BOM leads me to believe that it was adapted from the Bible, and perhaps a scribe just misspelled it.
Third, the fact that a cemetery was nearby proves nothing. I think most tribal regions (a large region, not a place per se) had cemeteries.
Fourth, the fact that it was located on a major trade route near a key junction proves nothing. Doesn&#039;t it seem logical that any tribe would do something like that? Additionally, as John H. pointed out above, there are other NHM places located on key trade routes. By the way, both of the other NHM-like places he stated are several thousand years old.
Fifth, in the typical vague nature of the early books of the BOM, there is little reference to directional indicators, allowing the geography to be placed just about anywhere. Also, the region of NIHM (which is not the same as NAHOM) was populated by nature worshiping people. Why aren&#039;t they mentioned? Did Lehi&#039;s family just waltz right in and bury their dead in a populous place? That&#039;s ludicrous.
Sixth, apologists want us to accept that a group of Christian-like Jews who had spent their entire life in Jerusalem decided to leave and spend up to seven years in the Empty Quarter of Arabia. Really?
Seventh, even with the NHM find, the geography is still far from perfect. While early models (like Nibley&#039;s) had the problem of traveling nearly eastward across the Empty Quarter, the Kent Brown version stretches the limits of going nearly eastward. That is because even with the NHM find, the vagueness of the geography prevents apologists from reaching a consensus as to where the events took place.
Eighth, it is very easy to cherry pick evidence for anything. UFOlogists (like Warren Aston, the BYU-researcher who pioneered the NHM geography), conspiracy theorists, etc find seemingly legitimate evidence all over the place. The fact that a common Semitic root was found in a Semitic country does not impress me at all. It seems far more likely that Joseph pulled Nahom from the Bible. When conclusive evidence shows up in the Americas (and that does not mean Sorenson&#039;s ideologically driven, diffusion theories), then I will be impressed. Until then, I feel obligated to remain in line with dispassionate anthropologists (several of whom I have contacted), and view the Book of Mormon from a pseudepigraphical point of view, which I am content doing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I am late adding to this board, but I feel that I need to defend John H. here. Before I begin my critique of the NHM &#8220;evidence,&#8221; note that I am an active member of the LDS church, though I tend to be less orthodox:</p>
<p>First, the root NHM is relatively common whether in Semitic countries or America itself. In fact, one of the Spalding witnesses (though I do not subscribe to that theory) was named Nahum. As far as we can tell, and as John Hamer has pointed out, the names in the BOM were derived from known sources like the Bible.<br />
Second, the altars were written in South Arabian script where the root NHM refers to stone cutting, not comfort.The Hebrew word for comfort is &#8220;nacham&#8221; with a hard &#8220;h&#8221; unlike &#8220;nahom.&#8221; In fact, &#8220;nahom&#8221; is not a Hebrew word and is not known to be a real place. The fact that &#8220;nahom&#8221; is spelled like it is in the BOM leads me to believe that it was adapted from the Bible, and perhaps a scribe just misspelled it.<br />
Third, the fact that a cemetery was nearby proves nothing. I think most tribal regions (a large region, not a place per se) had cemeteries.<br />
Fourth, the fact that it was located on a major trade route near a key junction proves nothing. Doesn&#8217;t it seem logical that any tribe would do something like that? Additionally, as John H. pointed out above, there are other NHM places located on key trade routes. By the way, both of the other NHM-like places he stated are several thousand years old.<br />
Fifth, in the typical vague nature of the early books of the BOM, there is little reference to directional indicators, allowing the geography to be placed just about anywhere. Also, the region of NIHM (which is not the same as NAHOM) was populated by nature worshiping people. Why aren&#8217;t they mentioned? Did Lehi&#8217;s family just waltz right in and bury their dead in a populous place? That&#8217;s ludicrous.<br />
Sixth, apologists want us to accept that a group of Christian-like Jews who had spent their entire life in Jerusalem decided to leave and spend up to seven years in the Empty Quarter of Arabia. Really?<br />
Seventh, even with the NHM find, the geography is still far from perfect. While early models (like Nibley&#8217;s) had the problem of traveling nearly eastward across the Empty Quarter, the Kent Brown version stretches the limits of going nearly eastward. That is because even with the NHM find, the vagueness of the geography prevents apologists from reaching a consensus as to where the events took place.<br />
Eighth, it is very easy to cherry pick evidence for anything. UFOlogists (like Warren Aston, the BYU-researcher who pioneered the NHM geography), conspiracy theorists, etc find seemingly legitimate evidence all over the place. The fact that a common Semitic root was found in a Semitic country does not impress me at all. It seems far more likely that Joseph pulled Nahom from the Bible. When conclusive evidence shows up in the Americas (and that does not mean Sorenson&#8217;s ideologically driven, diffusion theories), then I will be impressed. Until then, I feel obligated to remain in line with dispassionate anthropologists (several of whom I have contacted), and view the Book of Mormon from a pseudepigraphical point of view, which I am content doing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? by Ron</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2013/06/16/the-book-of-mormon-an-imperfect-book/comment-page-1/#comment-12925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonheretic.org/?p=2822#comment-12925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think the documentary hypothesis is something you can choose to believe or not believe, any more than you can believe or not believe the theory of evolution, independent of the evidence. It&#039;s gone way beyond a matter of speculation. I mean, scholars questioned it, but they&#039;re not proposing a return to previous assumptions. They&#039;re saying that maybe none of the Bible is as ancient as it claims or was written by the individuals it says are its authors. This is corroborated by evidence from other disciplines, which show a much different history for the region than the Bible tells.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the documentary hypothesis is something you can choose to believe or not believe, any more than you can believe or not believe the theory of evolution, independent of the evidence. It&#8217;s gone way beyond a matter of speculation. I mean, scholars questioned it, but they&#8217;re not proposing a return to previous assumptions. They&#8217;re saying that maybe none of the Bible is as ancient as it claims or was written by the individuals it says are its authors. This is corroborated by evidence from other disciplines, which show a much different history for the region than the Bible tells.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? by Brad</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2013/06/16/the-book-of-mormon-an-imperfect-book/comment-page-1/#comment-12924</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 12:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonheretic.org/?p=2822#comment-12924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The way I understand the expansion theory is as a sort of middle ground between a strictly ancient source and a complete fraud -- Ostler suggests that the BoM was inspired by some actual ancient source but contains many elaborations that are more the product of a 19th century production. See his Dialogue piece for more: http://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V20N01_68.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I understand the expansion theory is as a sort of middle ground between a strictly ancient source and a complete fraud &#8212; Ostler suggests that the BoM was inspired by some actual ancient source but contains many elaborations that are more the product of a 19th century production. See his Dialogue piece for more: <a href="http://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V20N01_68.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V20N01_68.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? by Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2013/06/16/the-book-of-mormon-an-imperfect-book/comment-page-1/#comment-12914</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mormon Heretic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonheretic.org/?p=2822#comment-12914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brad, Wunderli certainly does quote Ostler in the book.  I&#039;m not completely familiar with Ostler&#039;s expansion theory though, and I don&#039;t believe that Wunderli specifically references Ostler&#039;s theory directly.  Is there something you can tell me about Ostler so that I can tell you if Wunderli addresses specific points of Ostler?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad, Wunderli certainly does quote Ostler in the book.  I&#8217;m not completely familiar with Ostler&#8217;s expansion theory though, and I don&#8217;t believe that Wunderli specifically references Ostler&#8217;s theory directly.  Is there something you can tell me about Ostler so that I can tell you if Wunderli addresses specific points of Ostler?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Documentary Hypothesis by The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? &#124; Wheat and Tares</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2009/07/19/the-documentary-hypothesis/comment-page-2/#comment-12913</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? &#124; Wheat and Tares]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=644#comment-12913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] just one of Wunderli&#8217;s examples.  He also discusses the problems with the Documentary Hypothesis (that I blogged about previously) and how it is a problem for the Book of Mormon.  Briefly, many [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] just one of Wunderli&#8217;s examples.  He also discusses the problems with the Documentary Hypothesis (that I blogged about previously) and how it is a problem for the Book of Mormon.  Briefly, many [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? by Brad</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2013/06/16/the-book-of-mormon-an-imperfect-book/comment-page-1/#comment-12910</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 11:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonheretic.org/?p=2822#comment-12910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting post -- I&#039;ve often wondered about the many passages in the BoM that seem to be plagiarized from Paul (or whoever wrote the different books attributed to him).

Does Wunderli engage with Ostler&#039;s Expansion Theory at all? That would seem to account for most of the problems raised in the post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post &#8212; I&#8217;ve often wondered about the many passages in the BoM that seem to be plagiarized from Paul (or whoever wrote the different books attributed to him).</p>
<p>Does Wunderli engage with Ostler&#8217;s Expansion Theory at all? That would seem to account for most of the problems raised in the post.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Debunking the Jockers Study by The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? &#124; Wheat and Tares</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2011/02/09/debunking-the-jockers-study/comment-page-2/#comment-12908</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? &#124; Wheat and Tares]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 06:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=1412#comment-12908</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;]  To my surprise, Wonderli completely ignored the dueling wordprint studies at Stanford and BYU.  Briefly, some researchers at Stanford put together a peer-reviewed statistical study in Oxford [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;]  To my surprise, Wonderli completely ignored the dueling wordprint studies at Stanford and BYU.  Briefly, some researchers at Stanford put together a peer-reviewed statistical study in Oxford [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mormon Doctrine: Catholicism by The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? &#124; Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2013/03/17/mormon-doctrine-catholicism/comment-page-1/#comment-12907</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? &#124; Mormon Heretic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonheretic.org/?p=2702#comment-12907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] to go a bit too broad in his anti-Catholicism stance.  While it is certainly true that people like Bruce R. McConkie condemned Catholics as the Church of the Devil, and often used the Book or Mormon as evidence, I just don&#8217;t think that is a proper reading [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] to go a bit too broad in his anti-Catholicism stance.  While it is certainly true that people like Bruce R. McConkie condemned Catholics as the Church of the Devil, and often used the Book or Mormon as evidence, I just don&#8217;t think that is a proper reading [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Debunking the Jockers Study by The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? &#124; Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://mormonheretic.org/2011/02/09/debunking-the-jockers-study/comment-page-2/#comment-12906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Book of Mormon: An Imperfect Book? &#124; Mormon Heretic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=1412#comment-12906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;]  To my surprise, Wonderli completely ignored the dueling wordprint studies at Stanford and BYU.  Briefly, some researchers at Stanford put together a peer-reviewed statistical study in Oxford [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;]  To my surprise, Wonderli completely ignored the dueling wordprint studies at Stanford and BYU.  Briefly, some researchers at Stanford put together a peer-reviewed statistical study in Oxford [&#8230;]</p>
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